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January 27th, 2001, 04:33 AM
#21
Inactive Member
What is the fascination with numbers? I just dont get it.. It shouldnt matter.. if you take a 200hp (to the wheels)vehicle, and you have a 250hp (to the wheels)vehicle of identical weight, and the one with the 200 wheels excelerates faster than the one with 250 because of torque curves and where the power is available.. why would it matter.. if the tach goes from 2k to 8k in 2nd gear in 4 secs because of the broad tq curve opposed to a car that will go from 2k-8k in 5 sec (making most of the time up on the top of the rpm range) what the hell are the hp/tq numbers good for? nothing..its how fast the car excelerates.. not how much power is being produced ... they dont always coincide.. thats why you should tune with the goods listed in the above post.. af.,.rpm timer..(simply made), j&s for the "whoops!" ,fpr etc....
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January 27th, 2001, 04:43 AM
#22
Inactive Member
Agreed - when I complete my turbo install I intend to do all tuning by gauge and accelerometer; this more accurately reflects what the true -performance- of the engine is, rather than how much torque it can produce at various speeds when strapped to a dyno. Dyno doesn't tell you anything about transient response, turbo lag, or any of the many many other factors that affect how your car drives on the real road. But it's a definite matter of having a great deal of patience and understanding what all those little gauges are telling you.
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January 27th, 2001, 05:29 AM
#23
Senior Hostboard Member
Hooper,
Those HP numbers indicate that your torque is a bit low (as compared to your 1/4 mile times), that is unless you are experiencing crazy amounts of wheelspin.
Glad to hear that things are coming along anyway.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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January 27th, 2001, 07:55 AM
#24
Inactive Member
I'm gonna guess that anybody that claims that a G-tech or a drive around the block with their laptop is better information than a dyno, simply doesn't have access to a dyno... 
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Donny
Import Specialty Automotive
(253) 473-2606
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January 27th, 2001, 10:16 AM
#25
Inactive Member
The only problem I found with the GTech was that ANY TINY bit of wheelspin ruined that run because the G-spike, or whatever you want to call it when the tires hooked back up would give ridiculous HP and 1/4 mile times.
I think I even read somewhere that the GTech has an acceleration limit (in G's) that if exceeded (by wheel hop shocks, big bumps, whatever) blows the math it's doing to pieces.
With care they can be very accurate, but you have to know when to throw a run's results out.
Greg
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January 27th, 2001, 02:32 PM
#26
Inactive Member
JRcivic,
There IS a alot of wheelspin when I attempt the 1/4 mile runs. In fact I find myself feathering the throttle to keep it from spinning, which in turn, causes a slower time. I don't think there is a lack of torque anywhere in the band. You still need to come by next time you're down this way...
Import Tuner,
I don't remember anybody saying that a gtech was better. It does allow someone without access to a dyno, to do some things themselves. But more imporantly, to allow a person to learn how to do it themselves. It's a huge learning experience. I personally don't like the idea of taking my car to a shop and say "here tune this for me" (sorry Jim). I'm a "hands-on" guy. I also don't want anybody else f'n around under my hood. You might as well be messing with my wife! (not meant to sound hostile) That's just my feelings.
Holden,,
I've always questioned the accuracy of the thing, too. I have learned that when donig the HP readings that you really don't have to hammer it thru the gears, like you do on 1/4 mile. You can ease out of the hole and through gears you don't care about. Then when you get to the gear you want the most accurate reading, then go with it. When there is not wheel spin, it basically hasn't "lost" it's point of reference from the start. And the vehicle weight is important too. I try to be as accurate as I can when I do decide to look for those numbers. I can, however, use the 1/4 mile function to, not only help with tuning results, but help me learn to make it fast.
I can see what differences different launch techniques make, and so-forth. It's a good "tool".
I'm not trying to preach, or anything. I'm just using the tools available to me to get the best results I can.
Just to say I said so, I would love to do a few dyno runs, so that I can see, more accurately, what's happening. But, there is one shop with a dyno within a reasonable driving distance. His shop is open from 9am to 6pm mon - sat. Well, guess what. That's the same exact hours my business is open, too. He can't do it earlier, noise ordinance. And I'm not gonna be the a-hole custmer to ask him to stay late, after working all day. I hate it when people do the same to me. I'll find some time, sometime.
Anyway, I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest. I apologize for causing any tempers to flare.
Phil
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January 27th, 2001, 05:41 PM
#27
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January 28th, 2001, 07:08 AM
#28
Senior Hostboard Member
Hooper,
No offense taken... I still love you.
heheh
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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January 29th, 2001, 03:10 PM
#29
Inactive Member
You guys who read the ENDYN board will recognize comments made about bleeding on your car. More blood, sweat and tears have been put into it than I could ever count. In fact, I spend more time worknig on it than driving it. Hence, the poor times!! I bought it new in May 1993. I just rolled 60k. That's only ~7500 miles per year.
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